We're Back!!... Episode 121

🎙️ Melanie Russell is back in the studio — and it feels so good!

Watch the full video version here: https://youtu.be/8l6T131Q4tI

After an 8 year hiatus, the ToRAISE Questions Doula podcast returns with fresh energy and a whole lot of heart. In this episode, Melanie reintroduces the pod and reflects on the many transitions that have unfolded — both within ToLABOR and in her own life — since the last recording.

She also catches listeners up on all things ToLABOR 2025, including exciting updates to the Birth Doula Training curriculum. Joining her are two new ToLABOR educators, Hunter Moore and Cheyenne Varner, who share their contributions on these additions, along with personal stories and wisdom from their work in the field.

This is a conversation about growth, change, and the ever-evolving path of doula work — and we’re so glad to have you listening.

The ToRAISE Questions Doula podcast offers thoughtful, unfiltered conversations for doulas and birth workers who want to deepen their knowledge, elevate their practice, and uphold the integrity of birth work. Each episode features insights from experienced professionals in the field, helping you grow with intention and purpose.

Questions, feedback, show ideas, want to be a guest? We want to hear from you!

→ Email: melanie@tolabor.com
→ Instagram: instagram.com/tolabor
→ Facebook: facebook.com/toLabordoulas

Interested in becoming a Doula?
Visit our website for more: https://tolabor.com/

Transcript

0:00

Hi everybody. Welcome to To Raise Questions, a doula podcast created by Tulabor. Tulabor is an international doula training and certifying organization that has been serving communities since 1977. For nearly five decades, Tulabor has remained rooted in the politics and empowerment of pregnant people. We believe that birth is a social justice issue. Compassion in birth is not only a human right, it's a civil right. Through knowledge, advocacy, and support, we aim to help people find their voices so they can be active participants in their own experiences. This podcast was created as a meeting place for doulas everywhere, a support system and network to normalize birth work. Here, we'll share stories from the trade, offer a touch of education, share upcoming trainings, answer your questions, and continue to make an impact on the revolution of birth. I'm Melanie Russell, the executive director of Tulabor, and I'm really glad you're here. It's been eight years since I've sat behind this microphone, and I am so excited to bring this podcast back to life. I've got two amazing guests here today to help bring, to raise questions back into modern times, and they are here to share about themselves, but also about the evolution that has taken place in these past eight years. First, we have Hunter Moore. Hi. Hi, Hunter. Hunter is a Tulabor-certified professional birth doula. Hunter is also a mom of four. Newly. Still getting used to saying that. Yes, me too, and is the collective coordinator for another business that we both run called The Brighter Birth in Richmond, Virginia. Hunter has taken on the responsibility and the role of teaching part of our curriculum here at Tulabor now in the business category. So, Hunter teaches our business of being a doula portion of the curriculum, and we have Cheyenne Varner. Hello. Hi, Cheyenne. Cheyenne is the founder of the Educated Birth, and Cheyenne has been a doula in Richmond for a long time, has trained with a few different organizations, but Tulabor was your first. Yep, absolutely. That's where I started. Yes, and Cheyenne has taken on the role of educator with Tulabor now running the History of Racism in Modern Healthcare portion, which we call Racism, Reproductive Health, and Equity in Birth, and yeah, we're so excited to be here. I'm so happy to be here. Cheyenne, you are a mom of, you've got two little ones running around at home, you have a bonus son, and you're growing somebody else right now. Yes, yep. So, very multi-generational, multi-age group household. Yes. So, how many children do we have between us? Thirteen. So, I counted on the drive. Oh, yeah? When you said that earlier, I think it's actually fourteen with your bonus son. Okay, fourteen. Fourteen. So, we are responsible for fourteen human beings. Human souls. Between the three of us. Just running the world, just running it over here. The fact that we're all here together right now, and those fourteen souls are okay somewhere is wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, and it's also back to school time, so this is like the first week going back to school, and what's your morning routine, like getting out the door? Oh, well, we're beginning that. Yeah. So, we have pre-K orientation tonight. So, my oldest little one, who's three, Nyala, she is, we did the dry run. Yeah, they did it without me. Good for you. Oh, nice. Just her dad and her. She got up, she has a teddy bear backpack, teddy bear shoes, and ever since she got that backpack, she's been like, I'm ready to go to school. So, he said, let's do your hair, let's get dressed, brush your teeth, do breakfast, and hop in the car. And then as soon as they got there, he was driving by and she was like, okay, I'm ready to go now. And he was like, well, no, it's not. It's not today, actually. But yeah, yeah. So, I think that's what it's gonna look like. She's ready. She's ready. She's ready. And how many days a week will she be in school? Three. Okay. Yeah. Good place to start. Oh, it's the beginning. The beginning. So sweet. I'm on the other end of that spectrum. Yeah. We've got six kids from 15 to 21, and three of them are left in school. So, we have a sophomore, junior, and senior. And every day, this past couple of weeks is just different in the morning. One kid allows me to pack his lunch. The other one just begs me to bring her Starbucks sandwiches while she's at school, which is not happening. And then, yeah, then the junior is now driving the senior to school before she has to go to school, which is, it's just chaos. Total chaos. Total chaos. In our house. What's your morning like, Hunter? We're like in the middle of you guys. Yeah. So, mine are 10, five, and then I have nine, almost nine-month-old twins. So, we'll also be getting back into the preschool thing, but. So, they're super helpful in the morning. So, that's a fifth grader and a kindergartner. And so, it's actually a really good, good logistical year for us because those two, this is the only year that they'll be in the same place at the same time. So, those two go to one place and the babies are still basically home. So, I only have to go to one school this year in the morning, but I think it's the only year of my life for like the next 18 years that I can say that. Every other year will be like middle school, elementary school, and preschool. And then we just keep titrating up, for lack of a better term. I wish you so much luck in that. I have a little PTSD. I think there was a year where we had five different schools between six kids and no buses. So, that was brutal. We got through it somehow. You did. We did. Thank you guys so much for being here. Of course. It's really special. Those of you who have been listening to Therese questions, you will know that we've had a little hiatus since 2017. It has been that long since I've actually been in the recording studio. And I used to be the co-host for this podcast. This podcast and To Labor itself was both created by Therese Hakun. And those of you who have been lucky enough to train with Therese or even just listen to her voice on this podcast know what a gem she truly was. Just a full transparency. I'm going to try not to cry while we talk about this. But Therese didn't talk about her journey with cancer through the last few years of podcasting. There were actually a lot of things we didn't talk about while we were podcasting together. But we always met, I think before it started with like 30 minutes before podcasting, we would meet to try to flesh out just like a quick catch up session on what was happening. And then 30 minutes became 45 and then 45 minutes became an hour. And then by the end of podcasting, it was two hours of just talking. And then we were like, oh, shit, we missed the podcasting. We also say bad words in here. So that's okay. And so, yeah, Therese was on a long journey with cancer, something that she held very close, but something that she dealt with, just like a good doula would with tons of research, tons of different attempts at treatment. She traveled all over the world, had so much support from her inner circle, her children, her partner, also those close doulas to her. And she did absolutely everything to beat it. Unfortunately, we lost her in 2019. And from the time that we ended podcasting together in 2017, that year of 2018, instead of meeting for podcasting, we would meet for just talks. And so with those catch up sessions where she would share her journey, and then she would say, now tell me, tell me everything about your life, get into it. I want to hear all the details because during that time, the time that you guys got to know me and my voice through 2015 to 2017, I was raising my four kids, and then got divorced, and then kind of went out on my own and was trying to build my business at the same time. You guys remember Therese talking about, well, Melanie's not here today because she's at a birth. And so always on call, perpetually on call, and trying to figure that out. And then falling in love and adding two more kids into my household. So Therese loved all the goss. She loved the tea, she wanted to hear everything. And so through 2018, those talks in the studio became talks in her bed. And we would just really dive in and dive into all of the things that we were both scared of, what we were both looking forward to, talk some shit. We loved doing that. And Therese was my doula, as a lot of you know, for most of my children. And we had a really special friendship that evolved from that doula client relationship, which is rare, right? I mean, you're both doulas, it's rare to really connect with a client on that personal level to sustain a friendship. Yeah, and carry it forward. Yeah. Yeah. And that's something that she did really well with me. And I think that she saw a little bit of herself in me in those years when she saw me just running myself ragged with four tiny babies and trying to figure out what it was I was going to do with my life. And it was her who pushed me into taking the doula training. It was her who pushed me into going to New Hampshire for a week and taking my lactation counseling training. She paid for it. It was her who sent me to New York to get my Lamaze certification so that I could teach childbirth education in hospitals. And it was her who all along the way was kind of planting these seeds of, don't you want to be the head of Tulabor one day? She was laying a bread crumb trail for you to follow. And it scared the hell out of me, and I didn't want to do it. And those talks in her bed, you know, she would talk about just the unknown, what was going to happen to Tulabor. And because she was ready to, she wasn't ready to leave this earth, but she was ready to pass that baton. And she had trained me to teach the trainings when she was first diagnosed. And so we did a couple of weekends together and I sat through another training of hers, asked a ton of questions. And I think she reached out to me three or four times within her journey with cancer to teach for her. And every single time she would call me like two days before I was supposed to leave to go to a training and say, nevermind, I got it. I can do it. So I never got the chance to actually teach the training until she was gone. And so in one of those mornings that we were scheduled to lay in her bed and talk, and we would always, I would bring coffee. She was off coffee those days, but she really liked to smell it. I had this epiphany just driving to her house thinking like, I know that this is something that's really important to her. And I think I can do it. And so that day I shared with her that I was really interested and she was so excited. So then as time moved on and her treatments continued and all of her children came to Richmond to be with her in those final days, my goodness, it was set. And so I always say this, and I say this in every training I teach too, she's not here, but I feel her here. One of the participants in the training once sent me a bracelet that has the letters WWTD, what the trays do, because that's always something that I'm thinking about. Whenever I'm teaching a training or even today, like we're here today and she's, I know she's here and she's like, oh, Melanie, get it together. Come on. Because if you have been listening, you also know the dynamic between us. And it was very much, she would ask me a question. I would answer it and she would go, that's not quite right. Let's try that again. So she's always on my shoulder. But so in these past eight years, what has happened, I took to labor over in 2019 and taught the first training in January of 2020. It's a beautiful training here in Richmond. I was so nervous, but it was great. And then had the whole year planned out different locations all around the country. I was so excited. You made it to Texas though, right? We did. I remember sitting in your living room and we were like packing suitcases and Cheyenne had made visuals like posters and things to take, I think already back then. And we were like, how do we get these posters into the suitcase for you? Let's roll them up real tight. Exactly. Ah, the team was already beginning at that point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, yes, we had one in Austin, Texas, and then we had one in Richmond. And then we had one scheduled for Boulder that we didn't make because then the pandemic hit. Yeah. So during 2020, that was a really tough time for two labor because obviously new executive director trying to just get my feet wet in this and also bring it online because we had to, we still had to. How do you do it virtually now? Yeah. Therese's daughter, Grace Kuhn really was so helpful in setting up our online manual and she just did that without me even asking. And that was such a gift to two labor because that really, we still use that same online platform today. It's so easy to navigate. We teach straight off of that for our virtual participants over the training weekends. And that's also the place where you can contact us, where you can send in your certification packet. It's such a great, great resource. So we went online. We were online for a couple of years. And during 2020 in Richmond, we had a lot of protesting going on. And my husband, my kids, we were all out there. And as I was trying to create these curriculums, used to raise words, but kind of put my own spin on things, I was feeling what gaps there were in the curriculum. And one of those gaps was really the history of racism in healthcare specifically, and how doulas could create that sustainable equity in birth work. And then that's when I called you Cheyenne. And so just picking up off of that from sort of my lens, I came into birth work after being in the nonprofit world for a few years post-college in Richmond in an area called Churchill. And I was working for an organization that worked largely with kids and families, largely with a black community in Churchill, but was largely staffed and founded by white people in the area. And so there were not that many black staff. But those of us who were there and involved, we were keyed in to, and I'll just speak for myself, really keyed into what it means to enter into a space and be trying to do transformative work, really impactful life impacting work, and speak to the context of why are people struggling with the things that they're struggling with in this space right now? What are the roots of that? And so I was very attuned, I mean, from my whole life, but definitely from that season to what it means to deal with the systemic arena of an issue while doing on the ground sort of micro day-to-day level work at the same time. And really advocating for those conversations to happen there. And then I watched The Business of Being Born. It was like a super snowy winter that one winter in like 2016. And I got snowed in, well, everybody got snowed in. And so we didn't have any of our programming with the kids for like a week. And so that was like my rabbit hole of Netflix or whatever at the time. And so I learned about birth workers and I also learned the context of maternal mortality for black women and birthing people in the US. And so that rocked me. And someone referred me to Two Labor. So I communicated with Therese over email right away coming into this space with, I'm pretty much straight out of college, nonprofit world. I'm learning about this major issue and I want to be on the ground to do work in it. And so I contacted her and right from the start, I was like, I don't have a lot, but I want to take this training and how can we make this happen? She was flexible with me to create like a payment plan and provide some level of a discount so that I could get in there. And that was it. And so in taking the training and having that lens, I was one of maybe two black women or women of color in the training and it wasn't a part of the curriculum, that specific element. So I remember communicating with her maybe after on some level and just being like, hey, this is where I'm coming from and what exists in this space. Is that something you guys would talk about or what would it look like to talk about it? And she was just very, there was no defensiveness with her in me bringing it up. It was just an acknowledgement of, yeah, that's a real thing. So I think I came on to raise questions and spoke about that issue a little bit more with her way back when. And then she was just very encouraging as I was starting what I was doing with the educated birth to just go out and be the change, right? And to do the thing. So- She was so impressed by you. You were definitely a part of our communication in bed a couple of mornings. She was so impressed by just, she was like, she's so young, she's so vibrant, she's really driven. She really, she believed in you. I felt that. And so in these spaces, when you think about what allyship looks like, just the whole complex web of everything, I do really feel grateful. Sometimes things like any kinds of relationship and any kind of evolution, there's a timeline to it. Things aren't always immediate. And so we talk about that a lot when we talk about our class. So yeah, looping back into the class, even in creating, what does it look like to have a course as a part of a training that touches on this? We can't cover everything immediately. We can't just make everything in most cases. But we can start. We can start the conversation. We can start somewhere. So in creating that course, my goal was really to figure out what are the really effective starting places to lay a foundation for understanding that what we're looking at, there's a ton of complexity, but there's all of these facets of things that have happened way back when that are connected to some of the things that we see happening today. Where are those connection points and how can we intervene in them to be able to sort of create change? Yeah, create change, create little buffers of safety in spaces where we, again, can't necessarily overturn it overnight, but I can make sure that this space is safer. I can kind of facilitate something more effective between my client and this institution or a specific care provider or kind of guide someone towards a direction that maybe is a little bit more set up to understand them, to be able to speak their language, to be able to see them in a wholeness that will minimize some of those risks, right? So that's kind of what we're doing with the course. Yeah, you share a different perspective than some of the participants in the trainings have ever seen before. And I think the fact that, so Cheyenne does an hour and a half segment within the training and the first part of Cheyenne's portion is a slideshow that she goes through meticulously with everybody. And it's different in every training. It is updated. I'm always so excited to see what the new slides are, what she's changed. It's relevant to what's going on now with she adds in current podcasts, Netflix shows, movies, articles, and really gives people a way to think about racism, to learn about it in a very safe space, to be able to ask questions. We start the whole training. There are no dumb questions here. Please, this is a safe space. It's just like a birth. We're creating that environment. So I think we've been able to create that space for people so that Cheyenne can really get in there and create some change within each of these new doulas. So you're not just changing that dynamic or behavior within the systems that you specifically are in, but you're spreading it all over. So it's, I love it. I think it's been such a great addition to the training and there will be more. We've got lots of ideas in the works for future to bring even more of this into labor. Yeah. So yeah, I'm always happy to be there and I'm always saying like at the beginning, I'm like, I'm going to talk a mile a minute. I'm going to cover a million things. It's going to be, this is what we're not going to get to. This is, you know, all the things. And then at the end, I always have to guide everyone through a deep breath, but it's largely for me because it's like, okay, just finished everything. And now the floor is open. What do you want to talk about? The discussion at the end, I think is really where you solidify all the ideas you've just presented. Yeah. I really want people to think about, I don't want it to just be an academic exercise. I want it to be, how does this apply to what my context as a birth worker is going to be? And so whether someone is coming in and, you know, they're a white doula and they're thinking about eventually starting their own agency and building up this business and really, you know, creating something large, sustainable, profitable. And they're not really keyed into what their larger community looks like. How do I need to, at the start of my journey, start processing this and knowing how I can participate with my community in a way that aligns with the people who are working within their communities that have these needs. And then for the birth workers who are like me coming into to labor, into training and being like, I'm doing this to serve my community. And I don't know how I'm going to sustain myself or, you know, how I'm going to balance the double-ended, you know, the candle that burns from both ends of navigating this world as a black woman and also caring for people who are going through this experience. And so I hope that it's helpful and practical on all the levels. And then those who are, you know, people of color who are not, you know, black and representing their communities and doing similar things in different spaces. Like, this is just a way that we can, in the context of training, say, this is a foundational piece. We need to be here and start here and then spread out. And I hope people really take it and expand on it afterwards because that's it. You know? That's the goal, right? Yeah. The broader reach. Yeah. That's my piece. Thank you. So when I was looking at the curriculum and preparing to teach, I was thinking about the gaps that were there when I took the training. And, you know, the training when I took it was really life-changing. I left that training. I went into it really going for Therese because she saw something in me. And I left thinking, I will do this work. This is my calling. This is who I am, who I'm supposed to be. And so working in Cheyenne's segment was very important to me. But then also what I did with my doula practice was I built a business out of it. I started teaching classes. I started practicing. I started a collective. And I love to say I didn't go to school for business. So I knew nothing about business. And that was a piece that I wish I had had more information on. So while I was building that business, I met and fell in love with Hunter Moore. You actually always say, I didn't go to school for business, but Hunter did. And now that I have Hunter on my team, Hunter did. Thank goodness. That's why I snatched her up. Yeah. So I met Hunter. Hunter took my class, my childbirth class. 11 years ago. Oh my goodness. Wow. 11 years ago, baby Seneca. And then she took it again when she was a doula for her first client. And I challenged her in that private class. That's one of my favorite Melanie memories. Yeah, it was my first client. It was a close friend. And that's when I was just sort of like, I'm going to try this hat on. Let's see. I'm thinking about birth work. Is this really something that I could do? And I'm like, all right, you're my guinea pig. You're a first baby, really close friend. Let's give it a whirl. Let me get on the other side and see how it feels for me. So we took a private class with Melanie and she definitely pushed me. It was really cute. We would go over material and then she would ask the couple a question and they'd be like, I'm not sure. And she's like, okay, doula, what do you think? What do you think, doula? What would we do here, doula? And I'm like, I don't know. It did. It pushed me right in. And then after that birth, of course, I was hooked. This is amazing. That birth went really fast and it was so beautiful. And I was like, I'm a great doula. Those really get you hooked. And then that's when I did the training. So then after that birth, I looked into trainings and I think I remember stalking the A Brighter Worth website and was like, where did all these doulas train? How do I get started? And that's how I found 2Labor. And then I traveled out to Stanton, Virginia for a weekend and stayed with a high school friend who happened to live in that area at the time. And Therese was hosting a workshop out there. So that was really cool because I did have a one-year-old at the time, but it was really nice to actually remove myself from my own bubble and just put myself into someone else's guest room for a weekend and just immerse myself in the training. It was almost like a little retreat, if you will. But it was just a great environment to absorb all of that. Yeah. And then came back from that and was like, okay, how do I leave my, quote unquote, regular nine to five and make this a reality for myself? Yeah, that's a big question all the time. Yeah. Well, and then we ran into each other in the hallway of a hospital where we were both attending births and I was in the middle of a transition with A Brighter Birth and Hunter was there right at the perfect time. And immediately we caught up very quickly in that hallway and we got a coffee on the books and then we hit the ground running. Yeah. So when I took over to labor, I knew that I wanted to bring Hunter in somehow because we work so well together, but she is so good at explaining things, breaking things down in a really relatable way. And she thinks about things that my brain doesn't think about. So bringing in the business segment with Hunter leading that has just really been a huge save for the curriculum, I would say. It's such a great addition. And so give us just a little teaser of what your segment holds. Yeah. And I think that was such a common thing. I mean, I kind of remember leaving the old training to like, okay, I'm doing this, but also that like, how do I do it now? And the world is a different place than when we took that training to like fast forward to 2025. And so there are different techniques. I think I always talk about one of Teresa's favorite things was like sticking a business card in birth books. Like in Barnes and Noble? Yeah. Like go to a bookstore and stick your business card into a birth book. And then maybe if someone buys the book and opens it, like a card falls out. And like, I still tell people to do that because I think it's the universe, right? Like you're sending signs to people. And I love, but the other reality is that like we have social media now, like we have these platforms to connect with more than just that one person who's going to open that one book. Like we can create an Instagram account, like we can create a Facebook account and, you know, they are sometimes the thorn of everyone's side, but it's a great way to, you know, reach more people, which I think a lot of people get into this work, you know, trying to figure it out, but also like, how can I make a broader impact? Like how do I reach more people? And if this is something you're trying to set up, you know, for yourself to be a sustainable business, not just like, I'm going to work with two or three people a year, you know, we're all passionate about it. But, you know, when I left my career, I mean, that was a full-time career with like health benefits and a good paycheck. And that was an important piece of the puzzle for my family. And I'm like, if I make this jump, I need to recreate, you know, like some kind of income doing this for myself. And so. And stability. Yeah. And so, you know, just personally, that was important to me. And I feel like there's so many people that do kind of come to this work, maybe after hearing about someone's birth or after having their own baby and are in another career, but feel really called to this. And I think the part that feels the scariest is that like logistical piece. Sometimes it's like, you know, it's your heart work, you're passionate about it. You want to make a difference, but you're like, how do I do that? And like pay the light bill. Yeah. Yeah. And so, you know, I think adding the business portion in was important, you know, in I think something Melanie and I always talk about is like creating professionality around like the being a doula and how do we do that and how do we operate under contracts for our safety, but also our clients' safety, you know, like through the process. And so just trying to help people kind of build that, you know, you leave the weekend, you leave the training so inspired and like, okay, now how do I like put it into action? So my segment's about an hour long and we just kind of go through like the basics of setting up a business, you know, like when I leave here, like I need to come up with a name for my business. Is it just my name? Is it something else? You know, do I have an email account set up just for this business so I can start to funnel communication with my potential clients? What is building a website look like? Do I have that within my own wheelhouse? Do I need to outsource that? How much do these things cost? You know, and so we kind of break a lot of that stuff down just so people at least leave the weekend feeling like, okay, I've got some big bullet points here, like maybe you've never even heard an LLC before, you know, like where do I start? And so, you know, again, kind of like much like your segment, it's like we can't get into everything, everything and like how to file your taxes and all of that stuff. But it's at least like I can leave the weekend and feel like, okay, I've got some big, like five big points to start with to actually, you know, if I'm going to do this as a business, be busy doing it and have it as a main source of income for myself, how do I get started doing that? Yeah, we literally give you a checklist to get started with, which I think that that's how my brain works. Yeah, I need a formula. I need someone to tell me step by step how to do it. I can do the work, but I need the step by step. Yeah. And you break it down in such an easy way for people to really grasp. Okay, just foundationally, how do I begin this work? Yeah, I did the opposite. I began the work. And then I got really busy doing the work. So then I had to go backwards and create all of these things and then clean everything up. Yeah, which is such a headache to do. Yeah. No one wants to put like five years of financial information back into QuickBooks. No. Just start from the beginning with that, you know, like create. So that's what we talk about a little bit too, like create that skeleton, the structure. And even if you're starting slow, it's there. And then if your business is growing and growing, you know, the systems are in place and you're just plugging more and more into it, but you've got a good structure. So that doesn't feel overwhelming because the reality is if you're in this work, that's probably not the part that you're excited about or passionate about either. You know, like nobody wants to think about that. So it's like at least just kind of get this done, you know, have it in place for yourself. And then you can just roll with the pieces of the work that are more important to you. Yeah. And there are so many different ways that people can set up their doula businesses. And so we try to talk about all of those different options of being a sole proprietor to your business of working with maybe two or three doulas with backups, working for an agency, working within a collective. There's so, that's what I love about this work is that there's so much flexibility to how you set it up. You know, I know being on call could be an entire episode, which is so hard, but I haven't ever had a nine to five job. I've been able to drop my kids off at school, pick them up from school most days if I'm not at a birth, you know, and that's really important to me. And so to create that flexibility, I created the team that I needed. So we really talk about the different options on how to get into this work, how to organize it as a business and how to sustain it. One of the other pieces too is just where to find clients. And I think that's a big piece too, that feels a little overwhelming, right? Like, again, we're leaving, we're excited, we're ready to do the work, but like, how do I find clients? And so that's something we go over in the training too, just like a couple different like networking within your community ideas to be able to get connected with people that are having babies so that you can actually do the work. Where do I find the people? Yeah. So, so many little questions are popped in there. All right. Thank you both of you so much for sharing your segment. So that's kind of what, you know, we wanted to give you all a taste of what this new curriculum looks like. It still holds the birth doula portion is by far the heaviest focus. And then we bring in Cheyenne and Hunter to lead their segments. We have in-person trainings. We have virtual options as well. We also have a destination training and retreat option one or two times a year. We can get more into that later, but now I would like to go back to you guys. We have a segment on the podcast now sharing doula experiences. So this is a story, a snippet, just take us through what comes to mind. One, one thing that stands out to you from being a doula, interacting with clients, interacting with staff, you know, however that might look, what's one doula experience that really stands out. I'll go first. I was thinking about this. We were chatting about it before a little bit, but the, whenever I'm asked a question like this, there's one particular experience that really comes to mind. And it's a very early experience in my, my doula work. It was a young doula had been partnering with a local birth center. And I had a client who she was so, you know, we'd done all our prenatals and you never know exactly how someone is going to translate what you talk about into their labor experience. Cause you don't know what their labor is going to be like. But I just remember getting to the birth center and her getting up onto the bed and there was like a big, really fuzzy blanket that was like an extra throw on the bed. And she pulled that up over her head and got just completely underneath it. And all you could do is just hear her just breathing through contractions and just, she stayed in there for the vast majority of that labor. I was with her for two labors, two different births. And that one in particular, vast majority, she was just under that blanket. And so I would just stand off to the side and have water with the straw ready. If she picked up the corner of the blanket and pop it in there, take some sips. Okay. And just be close enough so that if she said something I could meet whatever, you know, and just outside the door with the midwife about it. But yeah, it was like, I think for me, that was one of those births where just tangibly experiencing holding space without doing a lot. Some births, we use our hands a lot. We use our voices more. We use various tools and really get in our heads about what position am I thinking we might blah, blah, blah, you know? Right. Am I doing enough? Yeah. Yeah. But that was like an instance in which I felt like I was doing exactly what I needed to do for her, which was just to hold the space so she felt safe under that blanket. Yeah. You stay under that blanket. I got you. Yeah. She created her birth cave and you were just standing at the door. Yeah. Make sure no predators got her. Yes. No predators are here. Yeah. Sometimes that's all we have to do, right? I love that. In my middle birth, I had a cardigan on and no pants. Of course, no pants, but this hoodie cardigan. And I also was putting it around myself and everyone's like, aren't you hot? Do you want to take that off? I'm like, no, I need this cardigan. And I'm only thinking about it because I did a closet clean out this past week and I was getting all this stuff out of my closet to sell, donate, whatever. And I saw that cardigan and I'm like, I can't get rid of that cardigan. No. Not even cute, but it's like my, it was my labor cave cardigan. That thing needs to be framed. It's just going to be in the closet for probably the next 30 years. Maybe I'll- Dipped in bronze. Sometimes you just have to get under cover. Well, a top of mind for me this past year is just was navigating another pregnancy as a doula, which is always fascinating. I mean, I have three pregnancies, four kids. And so I've been a doula two times through pregnancies and I love it. I mean, it's hard physically, but I think it always just brings me, I always say like back to basics, right? It's like, I've been in this work for almost 10 years, so there is a point where you kind of like forget what it feels like to be that pregnant person experiencing this. And so, getting back into a pregnancy and kind of navigating that right alongside of the clients is really special because it does get you back into the basics and remembering how everything feels. But I also kind of feel like later in those, later I feel a little more connected to those clients too. I don't know, it's just something kind of special. And then if we continue friendships, it's like, oh, your kids are the same age. And oh yeah, your kid is only two months younger than mine. Like we are starting preschool now at the same time. I was really that pregnant when I was in your labor room. Yeah, I was really that pregnant. And so I think just like doula experience-wise was just, there was also a lot of learning that has to be done in that experience of how to doula yourself through those months. And this last pregnancy was with twins and I doula'd until about 34 weeks, which Melanie reminded me prior to the podcast and I kind of forgot. I had kind of like glazed over that. And so just finding ways to do this work, but still take care of yourself, and that's a whole nother podcast too. But that was something that was kind of big through this past year for me was, how do I show up fully for my clients? How do I not overextend myself when I am in this like kind of vulnerable state, not push myself too far. And so just trying to figure out different ways to keep my own water cup full, I guess, like during those births. What did you do when you came home from a birth? In those final- I go to get food. I just immediately would get food on the way home because a lot of times we're just sustaining on bars and crackers through a birth. And so I would stop and just get like a giant meal and then just go straight home and just fill up the bathtub and like eat the food in the bathtub. I'm not going to lie. Just like get in huge ice water, huge bowl of food and just like soak my tired body. But that was it. And then you can reset and you're back for another day, your own family or the next birth or whatever it is. And then there's a whole element too to kind of figuring out how to take time off. I know a lot of birth workers also are growing their own families in this timeframe. And so figuring out the logistics of that too of like how do I give myself a true like maternity leave here to be in my own little nest and so navigating that and figuring out how to find the time for that and when's the right time to come back into the work. And so there was kind of like a- I was able to give myself weeks off and spend time with those babes while they were teeny tiny and then just sort of ease back in, you know, two clients that first month, three the next, four the next and just kind of get your mind back in business. You did a really good job. Thanks. Still figuring it out. I know. It's a day-to-day thing. Thank you so much for being here. This is a really special day for me and it was so nice to see both of you and to hear your voices and share your stories. Hope to have you back on. Yes, we'll be back. For more. Absolutely. Thank you so much. We have so much to talk about. And then what's coming up for Tulabor? We've got two trainings left on the calendar for this year. We have our destination combo doula training and retreat happening in Wintergreen, Virginia coming up September 11th through the 14th. You will see all of us there and a few new faces, which is going to be really exciting. And that is going to be our retreat style training. So that is where we are all staying in a gorgeous house together. We have wellness activities planned out, kind of what Hunter was just talking about with how do you care for yourself as a doula, how to doula the doula. We like to try to implement those tools right from the beginning. And you can sign up on our website to labor dot com. We also have our last training of the year, December 5th through the 7th. That's going to be just a birth doula training where the September training is birth doula, postpartum doula and lactation. The December training is solely birth doula training, and that is going to be in Richmond, Virginia, also with a virtual option, as always. And you can email us questions that you would like us to answer on this podcast. You can email Melanie at to labor dot com and check out the website again to labor dot com and follow us on Facebook and Instagram. Thanks, guys. Thanks for listening. This podcast was recorded in Richmond, Virginia at Overcoast Music and Sound produced by Travis Tucker, mixed by Perry Young. And special thanks to my husband, Jared Russell, for filming and directing this episode and for all of his input all along the way.